<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <title>Class Discussion of Polly Horvath's &quot;The Canning Season&quot;</title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> </head> <body> <table width=650 border=1 cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 bordercolor="#666666" bgcolor=#000000> <tr bgcolor=#0000a0> <td><font size=1 face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" color="#f7f7f7"><b>Author</b></font></td> <td width="551"><font size=1 face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" color="#f7f7f7"><b>Message</b></font></td> </tr> <!--Post: 185--> <!--Time: 1074604667--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Rachel</font> </td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 08:17 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> The plot development of The Canning Season follows a fairly standard trajectory, often seen in a childrens novel: character&#40;s&#41; are troubled, they travel to a place that removes them from the everyday, a new setting and/or people shake them up and help them achieve a sense of peace and a greater wisdom. What makes the plot enjoyable to follow and the character development believable and is Horvaths keen sense of humor. Penpen and Tilly have lived all their lives together in the harsh Maine wilderness, without the influence of modern life. They have developed their own sense of what is proper to say and think. Enter the tough and smart teenager Harper and this chemistry makes for absurdly funny dialogue. For example, on page 159 Penpen describes to Harper tripping over her mothers decapitated head while skipping through the garden. Yes. So I naturally stop. Naturally. I also break for heads, said Harper. Penpens story has an important point, and she makes it: she had no control over her mothers life, just as Harper cannot make Myrtle a loving mother. The humor that carries this point along the way makes us care about the wisdom imparted all the more. <BR> <BR> In addition to excellent dialogue, the omniscient narration allows readers to appreciate the uniqueness of each character. All of Horvaths characters are very human and have strengths and weaknesses, some having more of one than the other. Tilly is a fine example of one of Horvaths complex characters. She is selfish and wants all the cheese for herself, yet she shows her fierce loyalty when she is affronted by Hutchs unwillingness to eat Penpens final cookies. To her, It was like being passed the wine at the Last Supper and saying, No thanks, Im a teetotaler. &#40;p. 172&#41; As absorbed in herself as she is, Tilly is an astute observer of humanity, as when she insists on making tea for Hutch and Henriette in her bathing suit because She knew they were the type of people to be disgusted by the body of a ninety-one-year-old woman. &#40;p.169&#41; What a vivid image and wonderful commentary on the different attitudes toward aging. And, again, how absurdly funny! <BR> <BR> <BR> <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 185--> <!--Post: 186--> <!--Time: 1074609074--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 09:31 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Thanks, Rachel, for the introduction. <BR> <BR> During a Newbery meeting, each title is given a set amount of time to be discussed &#40;depending on how many books on the table and how many projected hours available for discussion.&#41; Usually, 10 or 15 minutes will be all we can give to one title. Everyone will either speak or nod their head in agreement... so, even if you don&#39;t have much to add, please pipe in just to acknowledge that you have &#34;heard&#34; these words. This same pattern goes for ALL our discussions in the next few days. <BR> <BR> Thanks. <BR> <BR> -- Roxanne <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 186--> <!--Post: 192--> <!--Time: 1074613093--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Katrina</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 10:38 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I found the &#34;Canning Season&#34; about as original as they come. I kept thinking I would find out more about the bears - which certainly added to the mystery. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 192--> <!--Post: 198--> <!--Time: 1074620729--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Shirley</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 12:45 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I must admit that if I hadn&#39;t been reading &#34;Canning Season&#34; for this course, I might not have finished it. I found the book just a little TOO quirky at first--maybe it was the craziness surrounding Ratchet&#39;s birth and naming. However, I came away with a really &#34;warm and fuzzy&#34; feeling when I finished and kept thinking back to the book. I keepgoing back to what Penpen said at Tilly&#39;s funeral, &#34;we have to love people as they are, free from what we want them to be&#34; &#40;186&#41;. I love how Harper and Ratchet find their true selves. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 198--> <!--Post: 200--> <!--Time: 1074622438--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Jenn</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 01:13 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> <b>The Canning Season</b> has many strong attributes that make it a contender for the Mock-Newbery: plenty of wacky characters, a witty dialogue and a memorable plot. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 200--> <!--Post: 204--> <!--Time: 1074624725--> <!--p:--> <!--/Post: 204--> <!--Post: 207--> <!--Time: 1074625248--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Susan</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 02:00 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I agree, it was quirky. I thought the quirkiness was rather sophisticated, and younger readers would not always &#34;get&#34; the humor. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 207--> <!--Post: 209--> <!--Time: 1074628684--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Moira</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 02:58 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I agree with everyone else, the &#34;Canning Season&#34; was quirkly. The characters saved the story for me. I found myself very concerned that Tilly and PenPen might go through with their pact to die together, and force the girls to return to their previous lives. I ended up really enjoying the book. I do wish the mysterious bears were explained... <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 209--> <!--Post: 215--> <!--Time: 1074630338--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Katrina</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 03:25 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> The bears: I went into shannon Hale&#39;s website and it seems she lives in a place in Canada very like the setting of the book! <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 215--> <!--Post: 225--> <!--Time: 1074637170--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Wendy</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 05:19 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Quirky is the buzzword here, and I have to agree. Reading this book was a chore for me. I can see some of the endearing qualities in characters, but I have to sift through a tremendous amount of wackiness to get through to it. Unless I underestimate the abilities of a child to read it &#40;or overestimate my abilities to read it&#41;, I don&#39;t see this as a distinguished book. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 225--> <!--Post: 226--> <!--Time: 1074637555--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 05:25 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I appreciate Horvath&#39;s ability to take some of the really touchy topics &#40;such as death and depression&#41; and treat them as the most natural matters &#40;which they are&#41; in life. The young characters in the story look and listen to the older folks with the same amount of fascination and &#34;shock&#34; that a reader might find oneself having, reading remarks such as this: <BR> <BR> On page 37, when Tilly tells about how she did not know &#34;what I&#39;d do for entertainment&#34; for her wedding and that &#34;Father solved that the following week, didn&#39;t he, Penpen?&#34; <BR> &#34;He certainly did,&#34; said Penpen. <BR> &#34;What did he do?&#34; Ratchet asked. <BR> &#34;He died.&#34; <BR> <BR> And that ENDS a chapter. In my view, the dark quirkiness is a way to bring these matters into sharp focus for the readers. I also think that such paragraphs show the author&#39;s polished skills to pace the narrative and create tension and drama. <BR> <BR> -- Roxanne <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 226--> <!--Post: 227--> <!--Time: 1074637672--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 05:27 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Just a reminder -- so far, we should have been focusing on the positive parts of each title -- until the Chair &#40;I&#41; switch the focus to the &#34;negative&#34; comments. <BR> <BR> Since Pam and Sue have already made some remarks about how the book might NOT work, and so many of us have already posted, we may now switch to our concerns. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 227--> <!--Post: 232--> <!--Time: 1074640078--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Rachel</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 06:07 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> My only concern echoes earlier comments: I&#39;m not sure if younger readers will appreciate the humor. I really don&#39;t know since I&#39;ve been hogging the book at my library and kids haven&#39;t been able to take it out! <BR> <BR> I wonder though, whether this could be a book read on different levels, like many classics that adults go back to and read with different eyes? <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 232--> <!--Post: 235--> <!--Time: 1074642748--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Katrina</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 06:52 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I am begining to see the worth of this class when a book is so divided in its following. Perhaps this one would be better in YA? Would any of the dissenters look at it differently, think that teens might like it - like, say, Weetzie Bat? <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 235--> <!--Post: 239--> <!--Time: 1074646491--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Cherri</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 07:54 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> When I first began to read this book, I found it somewhat unappealing. In fact, I stopped reading it for a while and went to something else. However, when I came back to finish it later, I grew to like it much more than I expected. I was glad that I stuck with it to the finish. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 239--> <!--Post: 241--> <!--Time: 1074649830--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Shirley</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 08:50 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I have a question. It seems that more than one of us had difficulty with the beginning of this book yet ended with a positive comment. How is this dealt with by the committee? Would a child stick with a book like this and should he/she have to if it is an outstanding piece of literature? <BR> <BR> <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 241--> <!--Post: 242--> <!--Time: 1074652131--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 09:28 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Shirley and everyone, <BR> <BR> The Committee will deal with it like we deal with it. We will talk and discuss and find out WHY it is so -- and I really would like people here to give your reasons as to why something happens to a reader -- or at least attempt to puzzle it out along with the other members. <BR> <BR> For example, Cherri, you will need to figure out WHY -- does the pacing change in the middle of the book? do the characters grow on you? do you get to be more used to the tone and the &#34;shock&#34; is lessened? And, once you figure out your reasons for the &#34;unappealing&#34;-ness of the book and for your finally &#34;like it much more than [you] expected,&#34; then, the next step is to figure out whether the reasons are FOR or AGAINST this title/the author&#39;s &#34;literary achievement.&#34; <BR> <BR> And Shirley, your question &#34;would a child stick with a book like this&#34; is a valid question for the Newbery Committee. As we find in the criteria, one of the assessment we have to consider is if it is displays an &#34;excellence of presentation for a child audience&#34; based on our understanding of child readers and sometimes we can test children&#39;s reactions &#40;I would have given this book to my students to read so at least there is some indication of whether the book is WAY over their heads.&#41; <BR> <BR> I hope this answered the questions. <BR> <BR> -- Roxanne <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 242--> <!--Post: 255--> <!--Time: 1074687863--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Cherri</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 07:24 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I think that my first reaction was that the early part of this book felt a bit disjointed or rambling. As a personal preference, I enjoy books where I can quickly grasp the plot points and have a good sense of where the story is going &#40;even though I don&#39;t yet know all the events that will happen&#41;. <BR> <BR> When I came back to finish the book, the characters themselves captured my interest, so I was willing to read to see what happened to them -- how things worked out. <BR> <BR> Perhaps that explains the difference between my inital and final impressions? -- I switched from focusing on plot &#40;probably my preference for most pleasure reading I do&#41; to focusing on character development. Thanks for asking questions to help me think further about this, Roxanne. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 255--> <!--Post: 261--> <!--Time: 1074691231--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Ellen</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 08:20 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I think that Cherri&#39;s comment about switching the focus from plot to character truly hit the nail on the head for this title. Once the reader suspends belief, all is well. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 261--> <!--Post: 275--> <!--Time: 1074716905--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 03:28 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Cherri, <BR> <BR> Great post! That&#39;s exactly what we need to further investigate this book... <BR> <BR> What do others feel? Will you worry that this character-based, slower-opening trait makes the book less appealing to its intended audience? Or, does this not matter? <BR> <BR> -- Roxanne <BR> <BR> <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 275--> <!--Post: 276--> <!--Time: 1074717063--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 03:31 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Ellen and all, <BR> <BR> This is one phrase that is often misused: <BR> <BR> Suspend Disbelief, I believe, is what Ellen tried to say. That, the readers become willing to BELIEVE &#40;you know, Stop Not Believing = Start Believing.&#41; So, Ellen&#39;s sentence should read&#34; Once the reader suspends DISBELIEF, all is well.&#34; <BR> <BR> Do you agree, Ellen? <BR> <BR> <BR> -- Roxanne <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 276--> <!--Post: 277--> <!--Time: 1074717199--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 03:33 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> And, what does this say about the book if it demands this type of self-motivated switch of focus on the readers? If you are not required to finish the book, would you have, otherwise?? <BR> <BR> Would most young readers?? <BR> <BR> &#40;I have to say that I ADORE this book from the get-go, and am not trying to criticize the book. But, these are points to consider for the award.&#41; <BR> <BR> -- Roxanne <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 277--> <!--Post: 282--> <!--Time: 1074726569--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Rachel</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 06:09 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I don&#39;t think I can speak to the self-motivated switch because I was hooked from the first by the uniqueness of the characters. A lot of books &#40;with possibly more captivating plots&#41; have characters that seem pretty interchangeable to me. Horvath&#39;s characters are ones that are stuck in my head. Who could forget poor Ratchet in her t-shirt trying to pretend no one will notice that she&#39;s swimming fully clothed? <BR> <BR> I&#39;m thinking of a book like House of the Scorpion, which I loved and thought was a gripping page-turner of a read, but I don&#39;t really remember the main character&#39;s personality. Both books stand one, but for different reasons. <BR> <BR> I think that the kind of &#40;student&#41; reader who will love this book will probably be on the older scale of readers and will appreciate characters with some spunk and quirkiness. Tilly and Penpen are WEIRD, but I think some kids like that. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 282--> <!--Post: 286--> <!--Time: 1074727812--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Shirley</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 06:30 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I started reading this book with much anticpation because of all the great things I had heard about it on the child_lit list serve. I must say I kept waiting for the great stuff and it took awhile. I&#39;m really not sure I would have finished the book. One night when I couldn&#39;t sleep around 3:00 a.m. I finally got into it and liked the characters. But it took over half the book. But then I don&#39;t personally like this sort of quirkiness as a rule. I don&#39;t work with children at this time. I&#39;m trying to remember if my jr. high students would have worked through it. Some would, but I have to wonder if the majority would. Again, this just might be me. Sorry, I may be rambling--tough day with long meetings. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 286--> <!--Post: 295--> <!--Time: 1074733934--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Jane</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 08:12 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Many people in this discussion refer to this book&#39;s appeal to children. What is the difference between appeal and popularity? The award criteria state that the award is not for popularity. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 295--> <!--Post: 296--> <!--Time: 1074735026--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Ellen</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 08:30 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Thanks, Roxanne! I understand what you&#39;re saying. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 296--> <!--Post: 299--> <!--Time: 1074737897--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Ellen</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 09:18 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I just read Jonathon Hunt&#39;s post on &#34;CCBC-Net&#34; Good comments on the Canning Season for those of you who subscribe. <BR> He refers to the use of the &#34;f&#34; word. I was astounded when I came across it in the text and did feel that the author betrayed her readers &#40;especially if they were intended to be younger readers&#41;. <BR> I&#39;m not sure how this plays into Newbery discussion and I hesitated to bring it up. <BR> Thanks to CCBC-Net, I had the courage. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 299--> <!--Post: 306--> <!--Time: 1074745142--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:19 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Jane: <BR> <BR> What the phrase of &#34;not for popularity&#34; means to me is this &#40;and others might interpret it differently&#41;: That we do not automatically put a book on the TOP of the list simply because we know that a certain book has been marketed well and has reached and being liked by many children. It means, to me, that popularity with all/most children is NOT the sole criterium, and all literary elements should be considered and weighed in our discussion. What this phrase tries to do is to set the Newbery apart from the Children&#39;s Choice Awards that are so commonplace now in so many states. You know -- People&#39;s Choice Award vs. the Academy Award or the Critics&#39; Circle Award. &#40;Am I making sense?&#41; <BR> <BR> However, when it is paired with the requirement of an &#34;excellence of presentation for a child audience,&#34; we DO need to consider if it succeeds in being a CHILDREN&#39;S book. <BR> <BR> I, for one, believe strongly that good authors of children&#39;s books have a special and &#34;extra&#34; talent from those who write for an older audience. They are skilled in constructing various elements of their books to suit the sensitivity, the capability, the interests, and the limited life experiences of many child readers. &#40;No one book every pleases EVERYONE.&#41; <BR> <BR> So... I ask Ellen and everyone else -- is using the &#34;f&#34; word &#40;Ellen, can you refresh our memory on which page this occurs?&#41; making The Canning Season NO LONGER a children&#39;s book &#40;ages 0 to 14?&#41; <BR> <BR> And, please, do not hesitate to bring anything up! We need all the views. <BR> <BR> -- Roxanne <BR> <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 306--> <!--Post: 311--> <!--Time: 1074748356--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Susan</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 12:12 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> The &#34;F&#34; word appears on pages 64 and 65. I was stunned when I read it once, amazed when I read it twice. The few &#34;damns&#34; didn&#39;t have the impact that these words did, and my reaction was to be angry that, by including this word, the child audience became an older audience. <BR> <BR> In response to Roxanne&#39;s comment about that special talent that authors who write for children have, I am in complete agreement. Especially because children do have limited life experiences and are still learning to &#34;read between the lines&#34; and to gain insights from symbols. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 311--> <!--Post: 313--> <!--Time: 1074774773--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 07:32 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Susan said, <BR> <BR> &#34;by including this word, the child audience <BR> became an older audience.&#34; <BR> <BR> Do you agree?? And, if it does make the audience &#34;older&#34; -- how old? Will a 14-year-old bothered by this word? Is this book for an older child to start with?? If so, then, does inclusion of this word make any difference? <BR> <BR> Or, stylistically, this word does not fit?? Or does it? <BR> <BR> -- Roxanne <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 313--> <!--Post: 314--> <!--Time: 1074775642--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Shirley</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 07:47 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I remember being shocked when I read the &#34;F&#34; word--it just seemed unnecessary and I&#39;m not sure that character would have said it. I left my book at the office, but wasn&#39;t it the lady with the quilt square, daughter-in-law of Tilly&#39;s husband? Anyway I think many children will be shocked at its use here--it just doesn&#39;t seem to fit the character and the setting--more quirkiness? But, whether right or wrong, it will affect the book&#39;s use. I know that many of my students as future teachers would be very upset by the word&#39;s presence. I argue that profanity is often appropriate and necessary in certain cases, but I don&#39;t see this as one of them. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 314--> <!--Post: 317--> <!--Time: 1074776872--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Ellen</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 08:07 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I agree with Shirley. I do believe that the &#34;F&#34; word in this book is jarring and in that sense disrupts the flow of the novel. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 317--> <!--Post: 322--> <!--Time: 1074790505--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Susan</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 11:55 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> If the readers are startled by the use of the word &#40;as some of us seem to have been&#41;, then it does not fit sylistically. <BR> Going back to previous commnets about the book growing on you, I found it to be true for me, and in trying to figure it out, I think the doctor character brought a sense of reality to the story, as did Harper as we learned more of her. Moving way into the future, we find out that the characters do live out their lives in ways that would not have happened had not these two sisters helped them along. As the sister&#39;s past is revealed, it explains alot about their choice to live in the woods. Those bears kept the hustle-bustle world at bay-but only for so long. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 322--> <!--Post: 325--> <!--Time: 1074809980--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Rachel</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 05:19 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I don&#39;t think using the &#34;f&#34; word was necessarily a bad choice. Tilly tells Ratchet that their nasty au-pair called them that. Tilly frequently says somewhat shocking things that most older people don&#39;t say to children, so I wasn&#39;t suprised Tilly would say such a thing. Ratchet is shocked, &#34;She called you that?&#34;, as any reasonable person would be that a caretaker would call her charges something so horrid. The incident seems in line with Tilly and Penpen&#39;s bizarre upbringing. Earlier in the paragraph Tilly recalls that her father suggested that the caretaker was nasty because she wasn&#39;t having sex....so is this a book for 6th graders? I probably wouldn&#39;t recommend it because I think the book is pretty sophisticated. But for 7th/8th graders? Yes, I would feel totally comfortable with them reading it. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 325--> <!--Post: 328--> <!--Time: 1074810914--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 05:35 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> Susan said, <BR> <BR> &#34;If the readers are startled by the use of the word &#40;as some of us seem to have been&#41;, then it does not fit stylistically.&#34; <BR> <BR> I ask -- &#34;startling&#34; seems to be the common tone and style employed by Horvath throughout the book -- I was &#34;startled&#34; by the head rolling on the grass and by the &#34;thing&#34; on Ratchet&#39;s back and by the Bears... <BR> <BR> Just my 2 cents! <IMG SRC="http://www.igloopress.com/discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-&#41;" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR> -- Roxanne <BR> <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 328--> <!--Post: 384--> <!--Time: 1074909728--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Moira</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 09:02 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I too would suggest this book for slightly more mature readers, although, to be honest, I had completely forgotten that the f-word had been used, so it didn&#39;t really startle me. I agree with Rachel that it fits Tilly&#39;s generally startling character, and the descriptions of the mother&#39;s suicide was much more upsetting to me, as well as the various bear mauling victims... <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 384--> <!--Post: 389--> <!--Time: 1074910392--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>Roxanne</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 09:13 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> And, I LOVED the descriptions of all the gory stuff -- can&#39;t think of the head rolling in the grass without laughing out loud, and I LOVE to describe this book to my colleagues and kids as, &#34;The book where this old lady&#39;s mother killed herself by chopping off her own head!&#34; <BR> <BR> It is horrific, definitely, but it is also so hilariously done. Horvath definitely has a wicked sense of humor. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 389--> <!--Post: 416--> <!--Time: 1074961676--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td valign=top width=73>Ellen</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 11:27 am: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> I&#39;m nodding about the wicked sense of humor. I loved the gory stuff and kids will too! <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 416--> <!--Post: 432--> <!--Time: 1074968669--> <!--p:--> <tr bgcolor="#f7f7f7"> <td valign=top width=73>&nbsp;</td> <td valign=top><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2"> <table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td align=left><font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica" size="2">Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 01:24 pm: &nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td> <td align=right></td> </tr> </table> <hr noshade size=0> <!--Text--> This book was so idiosyncratic that I think it&#39;s the type of novel that someone would either love or not, depending on their sense of humor. Those elements such as the &#34;gory stuff&#34; or use of language are just the items that divide the readership into the two camps. <!--/Text--> </td> </tr> <!--/Post: 432--> </table> </td></tr> <center><a href=home.html>Back to Newbery Workshop</a> | <a href=http://www.fairrosa.info>Back to Fairrosa Cyber Library Home</a></center> <!-- Start of StatCounter Code --> <script type="text/javascript" language="javascript"> var sc_project=1822430; var sc_invisible=1; var sc_partition=13; var sc_security="8bb42262"; </script> <script type="text/javascript" language="javascript" src="http://www.statcounter.com/counter/counter.js"></script><noscript><a href="http://www.statcounter.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://c14.statcounter.com/counter.php?sc_project=1822430&amp;java=0&amp;security=8bb42262&amp;invisible=1" alt="web page hit counter" border="0"></a> </noscript> <!-- End of StatCounter Code --> </body> </html>